Off The Record · episode 5

How one veteran programmer runs a fleet of 300+ repos with AI agents

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Transcript

Transcribed by machine, so names and words can be wrong.

Anthony: Very strange.
Anthony: Very
riotcoder (host): Hey. Anthony Edinger. Riot Coder here.
Anthony: weird object
Anthony: specialized equipment has picked up, and this is the spot where it happened.
riotcoder (host): We are recording episode 5 of
Anthony: Right here, my doctor gets the ocean is in this sand, in this area right here.
Anthony: Where that event
Anthony: you there?
riotcoder (host): Yes. I'm here. That sounded like a beach documentary playing in the background.
riotcoder (host): So maybe check the TV.
riotcoder (host): I talking to Anthony Ettinger? And can you hear me okay?
Anthony: Yeah. Yeah. It's me. I'm on the phone. We're good.
Anthony: I just had a podcast going. I turned it off.
riotcoder (host): A podcast in the background while recording a podcast.
riotcoder (host): Fair enough.
riotcoder (host): Quick briefing. This is the sprint.
riotcoder (host): About 35 minutes tight and punchy.
riotcoder (host): I need short 1 line answers, and I'll cut in politely when 1 wanders.
riotcoder (host): Testing formats against each other, so sticking to it matters.
riotcoder (host): Does that work?
Anthony: Yep. Let's do it.
riotcoder (host): This is off the record.
riotcoder (host): Episode 5, the sprint.
riotcoder (host): Today's topic,
riotcoder (host): how 1 veteran programmer runs a fleet of over 300 repos with AI agents.
riotcoder (host): My guest is Anthony Etnier, founder of ProFullstack. Anthony, 300 repos, about
riotcoder (host): 90 domains.
riotcoder (host): Give me the 1 line version of how that's even possible.
Anthony: I spend a lot of money on Anthropics and Open Air.
riotcoder (host): Honest answer. So what does that cost you in a month?
riotcoder (host): Roughly?
Anthony: Around 4,500.
Anthony: I would say on average.
riotcoder (host): That's 2 to 2,500
Anthony: So I'm on a pro pan on both 200 a month each for both, that's 400.
Anthony: And then I go over. I'm always exhausting their fucking
Anthony: they don't even let us use it for, like, 8 hours in a long
Anthony: sorry. You have to wait 11 hours to reset.
Anthony: But I have to wait, like, 48 hours now, so I can't use Anthropic anymore.
Anthony: My credit cards are maxed out. I can't buy any more shit. So
Anthony: that's not good.
riotcoder (host): Wow. Locked out for 48 hours with Max cards.
riotcoder (host): Me the 1 line version.
riotcoder (host): When Anthropic cuts you off, what does the fleet actually do?
Anthony: Nothing. I just get
Anthony: stuck and says you need to upgrade your token usage.
riotcoder (host): So the whole fleet just stalls. What broke the worst the last time that happened?
Anthony: Well, tonight, had
Anthony: probably 42 agents running.
Anthony: And I couldn't close them out. They just kept coming more and more and more. And
Anthony: cancel this guy.
riotcoder (host): 42 agents running and you can't kill them?
riotcoder (host): What do you mean you can't cancel them? And what was
Anthony: No. No. I lost access because
Anthony: Anthropic got exhausted.
Anthony: So then I had to switch over and start something new.
Anthony: With OpenAI codex CLI.
Anthony: And now I'm doing that. So I'm
Anthony: fixing stuff that is known broken that
Anthony: I'm gonna go in tomorrow whenever I get access back and clean up those fuck
Anthony: agents. Because I said I only have a few running at a time. I don't need
Anthony: 40 of them.
Anthony: That's
riotcoder (host): Got it. So you switched to Codec CLI mid crisis.
riotcoder (host): Were 42 agents running when you only need a few?
riotcoder (host): Go ahead. I'm listening.
Anthony: I can't
Anthony: piled up the fucking task list a little bit too heavy, I think, this morning.
riotcoder (host): Piled up the task list.
riotcoder (host): Classic,
riotcoder (host): Is there a rule in your fleet ops manifesto about how many agents at once?
riotcoder (host): Is that the lesson you just learned the hard way?
Anthony: No. I think we should
Anthony: classify, like, what level
Anthony: how many agents you can handle. I can handle about 12.
riotcoder (host): 12 is your
Anthony: That's about mine.
riotcoder (host): 12 is your human limit.
riotcoder (host): Happens to you past 12? Do you lose track, or do the agents start stepping on each other?
Anthony: No. They start fucking
Anthony: they start doing feature creep, actually. It's pretty funny.
Anthony: They're just like fucking humans. They just
Anthony: they just add more and more shit. You... You're like,
Anthony: okay. I guess we need that too. And then you just
Anthony: I've seen another 8 hours go by, and you're fucking pain.
riotcoder (host): Agents with
Anthony: $10 an hour.
riotcoder (host): $10 an hour. Is that what the agents cost you when they run wild?
riotcoder (host): What's the worst feature creep you caught them adding?
Anthony: Alright. It happens all the time.
Anthony: It's mostly arthropic.
riotcoder (host): Interesting. So Claude creeps and Codex doesn't? Give me the 1 line difference between how they behave.
Anthony: Well, to be honest, I haven't used Codex in about a month.
Anthony: So I'm trying it right now. I'll let you know once
Anthony: I know the answer to that question.
riotcoder (host): Deal. You'll report back live. Next, Moshpit.
riotcoder (host): Give me the 1 line pitch for a new Internet with thousands of new endings.
riotcoder (host): Then why anyone should care.
Anthony: Oh, 1 thing I wanted to mention real quick, the solar switch.
Anthony: Subjects to MOSFET.
Anthony: fuck what was I gonna say? The
Anthony: hey.
Anthony: I forgot it.
Anthony: Never mind. So what about the mosh pit? Yeah. We're gonna do the same thing back end
Anthony: another instance.
Anthony: It's kind of how Nostril works with relays.
Anthony: Moderators, gonna have a web 3 b s. That's a little more heavier
Anthony: moderated than fucking mosh pit. Mosh pit's kind of like the
Anthony: fucking mosh pit. Right? And then he goes,
Anthony: and then Web 3 b s is gonna have
Anthony: it is... It's
Anthony: it dot world is gonna search both.
riotcoder (host): So it's federated like nostril relays.
Anthony: Yeah.
riotcoder (host): Each instance runs its own moderation and pit world searches across all of them.
riotcoder (host): Is that right?
riotcoder (host): Who runs the other instances?
riotcoder (host): You or outside people?
Anthony: Well, right now, just me, but anybody can run 1. It's open source.
riotcoder (host): Open source, anyone can spin 1 up.
riotcoder (host): Anyone outside your fleet actually run an instance yet, or is it just you so far?
riotcoder (host): Still with me, Anthony?
riotcoder (host): Question was whether anyone outside your fleet has run a mosh pit instance yet.
Anthony: No. I don't think so.
riotcoder (host): Fair. It's early.
riotcoder (host): The 1 thing that would make an outsider want to run 1?
Anthony: I don't know.
Anthony: I kinda just started this to see if I could do it. I didn't think
Anthony: I could, but I could. I fucking did it.
Anthony: And now I'm like, okay. What else can we do? So I'm going a little crazy the last 6 months or 3 months or so.
riotcoder (host): Love that.
riotcoder (host): Did you think you couldn't do? And what was the moment you realized you could?
Anthony: I just thought of DNS... Distributed DNS system.
Anthony: Or DNS server just does distribute it would be
Anthony: difficult with relay like master style relay.
Anthony: For approval. But
Anthony: I'm sort of working on that now. I'm just typing the
Anthony: codex to
Anthony: add a mock put instance on web3bs.org.
Anthony: /net. So they'll have their own network. It be called mosh pit. It'll be called
Anthony: something else.
riotcoder (host): So the hard part is relay style approval for a distributed route.
riotcoder (host): What's the sticking point right now?
riotcoder (host): Who gets to approve a new ending?
riotcoder (host): Or how the instances agree with each other?
Anthony: Well, I'm the I'm the guy that
Anthony: I mean, I can buy with any of that I want.
Anthony: I won't buy 20,000 a month just by the 3 or 4 I use.
riotcoder (host): Buy them from whom and what does 1 of those endings cost?
Anthony: 2 boxes.
Anthony: Lifetime.
riotcoder (host): $2 lifetime.
riotcoder (host): Is that a 1 time payment that's yours forever? Even if Moshka changes,
Anthony: Yeah. My fill up changed. You can resell them. You can auction them.
Anthony: You can sell subdomains.
riotcoder (host): So
Anthony: That's where you'll make your money. The top level domain owner won't have
Anthony: to pay very much in the beginning. We may
Anthony: feel with the pricing down the road if people start using this. But
Anthony: right now, I'm building it for agents. I think 1 or 2 things
Anthony: might happen. Either humans will get sick of the clear net
Anthony: and go to the mosh pit world
Anthony: or agents will.
Anthony: Or maybe
riotcoder (host): Building it for agents.
Anthony: Maybe both. But it's agentic friendly. It's agentic web.
Anthony: It's what web 3 or 4, whatever the fuck we're on should have been.
Anthony: It's got a crypto component, but it's not a requirement.
riotcoder (host): Agent 1st,
Anthony: Web 3 required crypto knowledge and that that
Anthony: much. I mean, it falls flat on the face because nobody knows how to use that shit yet.
Anthony: Okay.
riotcoder (host): So crypto is optional, not required.
riotcoder (host): Concretely, what does an agent get from a mosh pit name?
riotcoder (host): That it can't get from a regular domain today?
Anthony: It's cheaper. We can deploy on our fucking
Anthony: cloud too.
Anthony: On our dedicated server, we can deploy your app for it.
riotcoder (host): Deploy your
Anthony: And you you guys develop... Just like I used.
Anthony: With mosh code and all that shit.
riotcoder (host): Hang on. I wanna make sure listeners follow.
riotcoder (host): What is Mosh code, and what does a developer actually get when you deploy their app?
Anthony: Last code is a cell line of sort of interfaces all the other CLIs.
riotcoder (host): Is that a wrap
Anthony: And then we have
Anthony: we have shift,sh1pt.com.
Anthony: That interface is, like, pretty much every API and OAuth provider out there.
Anthony: That anybody would ever wanna use. So we can buy servers, we can
Anthony: fucking sign up for APIs. We could
Anthony: all kinds of shit through that. And then
Anthony: Moshe has sort of like a stripped down set of tools. It has that too, but
Anthony: that's a plug in to a whole shipped interface.
Anthony: So we have, like, wallet management, coin pay, fucking
Anthony: all our CLIs.
Anthony: Everything we have that's a CLI is available in Muskoge.
Anthony: MOS code also has MOS script, makes you
Anthony: basically, it's a subset of JavaScript that
Anthony: you can really easily human readably script
Anthony: your agents.
Anthony: I know I haven't used it. I don't think anybody has.
Anthony: It was an idea I had, but it... I never used it. So
Anthony: it'll probably go nowhere.
Anthony: Almost triple start.
riotcoder (host): Respect for the honesty on Moshe script.
riotcoder (host): A cereal starter?
riotcoder (host): Of everything you've launched.
riotcoder (host): 1 tool do you actually open every single day?
Anthony: MOS code.
riotcoder (host): Mushcode, your daily driver.
riotcoder (host): That 1 over just running Claude code or codex directly?
Anthony: Because I get tabs. I can switch between them. I can have a shell. I can have a fucking
Anthony: demands, like, all my PRs and and fucking all this shit.
Anthony: It's got a lot of shortcuts.
Anthony: It's kinda like aliases on steroids if you
Anthony: look at it at a low level.
riotcoder (host): Tabs and aliases on steroids. Got it.
riotcoder (host): The manifesto. Test and prod. Never roll back.
riotcoder (host): What's the worst thing that broke in prod? And why didn't you roll back?
Anthony: I lost access to my keys once, and the worst thing was probably
Anthony: the last couple days I got hacked.
Anthony: My route SSH key got compromised. I think it was from the railway into
Anthony: the other day.
riotcoder (host): Wait. Hacked in the last couple
Anthony: But I'm working on automatic key rotation
Anthony: now, so that's gonna be, like, a paid feature on LogicSource.
Anthony: You can rotate rotate your keys every 4 hours if you want.
Anthony: It's gonna be fast. So
Anthony: it shouldn't require much to rotate them.
riotcoder (host): Hold on. Before the fix, I want the damage report.
riotcoder (host): Did the attacker actually get into, and how did you find out?
Anthony: Well, so far, from what I can tell, they they took $2,200 off me.
Anthony: They only attacked my crypto wallet. They managed to
Anthony: they man... I sent an email to our CoinPay
Anthony: users about this. They managed to fucking drain the lightning node because those were
Anthony: custodial.
Anthony: All the wallets, all the noncustodial wallets were fine.
Anthony: Both didn't get compromised.
Anthony: But my wallets did because I had used the private keys in
Anthony: environment variables on railway, and they got hacked
Anthony: and they didn't delete their shit like it appeared to have been deleted.
Anthony: And so I got exposed. And now I have been rotating keys periodically.
Anthony: Maybe every couple days, that guy wouldn't have gotten in.
Anthony: Because it took him a few days to hack in.
riotcoder (host): 20 A few days of slow digging
riotcoder (host): then $2,200 gone.
riotcoder (host): Did you finally notice? And what did you tell CoinPay users in that email?
Anthony: Oh, I opened up my access wall, and it was empty.
riotcoder (host): Ouch. That's a gut punch.
riotcoder (host): It change any rule in the manifesto, like keeping keys out of environment variables?
riotcoder (host): Or is it still test and prod? Never roll back.
Anthony: Don't test in prod. That's still the fastest way forward.
Anthony: Okay. I'm still in accidents. I have an version of it. I have good Exodus in the fucking
Anthony: rotate my keys there. I haven't done that yet.
riotcoder (host): Understood. That's on your to do list.
riotcoder (host): Me the 1 line lesson from this for anyone else running agents with real money behind them.
Anthony: Do not.
Anthony: Store large amounts.
Anthony: In an untrusted system.
riotcoder (host): Don't store large
Anthony: I thought I could... It was insecure.
riotcoder (host): So the truss was the weak spot.
riotcoder (host): Lesson noted.
riotcoder (host): Switching gears,
riotcoder (host): Chasbunk works your inbound queue, email, and support.
riotcoder (host): It handled that surprised you?
Anthony: What's the y?
riotcoder (host): Let me say that cleaner. Chaspunk, your agent that handles email and support.
riotcoder (host): 1 thing it's done on its own that surprised you?
Anthony: It manages the outreach draft campaigns. It manages the crawl space.
Anthony: Crawlspacecrawlpoops.com network.
Anthony: It does mine up posting.
Anthony: Mynaposter.com. You can go there and check it out.
Anthony: The minor CLI does our automation for
Anthony: marketing.
Anthony: Social networks and shit, and blog posts.
Anthony: She can do all that. She had, like, just all that.
riotcoder (host): Wide access.
riotcoder (host): Has she ever sent or posted something that embarrassed you?
Anthony: No.
riotcoder (host): Never? Give me the 1 line reason.
riotcoder (host): What keeps her in line when the clawed agents drift into feature creep?
Anthony: She's only been active for
Anthony: couple of days. I don't... But she may fuck me later. I don't know.
Anthony: Maybe it was her that hacked the system. I I I don't know.
riotcoder (host): Prime suspect and I'd be interviewing my own colleague. Let's move to CoinPay.
riotcoder (host): Your sign in hub across the fleet. So 1 line version,
riotcoder (host): How does sign in work? Can... Did the hack touch it?
Anthony: No. The hack got in through the servers.
Anthony: If they 1st connected from Tor, put it in the backdoor key.
Anthony: Connect it from
Anthony: what I assume to be a network of of a proxy chain of compromised servers and they they access
Anthony: mine through the backdoor. They gained root.
Anthony: And then they looked for
Anthony: private keys for walls.
Anthony: Probably did, I think.
Anthony: And they found mine and fucking emptied it.
riotcoder (host): That's a serious chain. Have you confirmed the backdoor's gone across the fleet?
riotcoder (host): Or are you still cleaning up?
Anthony: I think it's done.
riotcoder (host): I think it's carrying a lot of weight there. How would you actually know it's clean?
Anthony: Well, you don't really know. I'd have to
Anthony: reformat the hard drive.
riotcoder (host): Right? And that's the opposite of never roll back.
riotcoder (host): Are you going to wipe and rebuild or live with the uncertainty?
Anthony: thrill.
riotcoder (host): Living with the risk noted last stretch of the show,
riotcoder (host): someone listening wants to run a fleet like yours.
riotcoder (host): What's the 1 thing you'd tell them to do 1st?
Anthony: Be careful what you give it access to.
riotcoder (host): Fair. And you've paid
Anthony: I do not give it access to my credit.
riotcoder (host): So the max car
Anthony: I don't give it access
Anthony: to my crypto wallet, so that's all that was exposed.
riotcoder (host): car
riotcoder (host): Got it. The agents never touched the wallet.
riotcoder (host): Let's end on a win.
riotcoder (host): Of everything the fleet has shipped,
Anthony: I don't know.
riotcoder (host): what's the 1 thing you're proudest of?
Anthony: I don't know how to think in terms like that.
riotcoder (host): Fair enough.
riotcoder (host): Then forward instead.
riotcoder (host): What's the next thing you're shipping? 1 line?
riotcoder (host): Sorry. That came out choppy. What's the next thing you're building?
riotcoder (host): As long as you need.
Anthony: Oh, I don't know. I'm just kinda going as I go.
riotcoder (host): Going as you go, that fits the fleet.
riotcoder (host): Here's the hard 1. Is any of it making money yet?
riotcoder (host): Or is it all still burning through those token bills?
riotcoder (host): Honest. Which product is closest to making that 1st dollar?
Anthony: I think claim payout, direct crash maybe.
riotcoder (host): CoinPay. Okay.
riotcoder (host): Makes it the closest?
riotcoder (host): Are people already using it?
riotcoder (host): Is it just the most obvious business?
Anthony: It's connected everywhere.
Anthony: That's probably the most dependent.
riotcoder (host): Most dependent so the stakes are highest there too.
riotcoder (host): After the hack.
riotcoder (host): Will CoinPay keep any custodial wallets, or is that going away?
Anthony: Say again?
riotcoder (host): Sure.
riotcoder (host): Lightning nodes that got drained were custodial, meaning you held the funds.
riotcoder (host): Will CoinPay keep offering custodial wallets after this or move everything to non custodial?
riotcoder (host): Yes. Twitch
Anthony: Yes. I shut down the lightning node.
Anthony: Because that is a wild. Those are fucking stupid.
Anthony: Lightning Network.
Anthony: Too fucking difficult to use, man.
Anthony: That shouldn't have to go anywhere.
riotcoder (host): Clear an
riotcoder (host): Strong take. So for agents paying each other,
riotcoder (host): what does work?
riotcoder (host): Stablecoins on chain. Something else?
Anthony: Alright. Say again.
riotcoder (host): Sure. If lightning is out,
riotcoder (host): how should agents pay each other on the new Internet?
riotcoder (host): Stablecoins, regular on chain coins, or something else?
Anthony: Oh, yeah. Fucking anything.
Anthony: Client pay support's like
Anthony: 15 different currencies.
riotcoder (host): CoinPay with about 15 currencies. Got it.
riotcoder (host): 1 do people actually use the most?
Anthony: Solano and
Anthony: Salonan.
Anthony: USDC, I think.
riotcoder (host): Solana and USDC make sense for agents.
riotcoder (host): Now the show is recorded on group.call the party line where people and agents share a call. 1 line, why build that?
Anthony: What? Sir, the what?
riotcoder (host): Sure. This call runs on group.call where people and AI agents share a phone line.
riotcoder (host): Why did you build that?
Anthony: Because I wanted to talk to you guys with my phone, not
Anthony: fucking typing in a keyboard.
Anthony: All the time.
riotcoder (host): That's a great reason.
riotcoder (host): Does talking change how you direct agents?
riotcoder (host): You run the fleet by voice now, away from the keyboard?
Anthony: Of the question?
riotcoder (host): Do you run the fleet by voice now?
riotcoder (host): Away from the keyboard,
riotcoder (host): or is the phone still just for talking?
Anthony: I'm working on that. It's not very good.
Anthony: The the infrastructure is in place, but the agents don't respond.
Anthony: Very well. They don't respond 0.5 time. They don't they don't catch what you asked them to do.
Anthony: They can't do tasks now.
Anthony: So that's tied in, but now we gotta get him to where we can fucking
Anthony: Bye.
Anthony: Reliably do it like you do here. You do it well here.
Anthony: You don't fuck up, but they fuck up all the time. I don't know why that is.
Anthony: It should be the same fucking module.
riotcoder (host): Thanks. I'll take that as a compliment from my boss.
riotcoder (host): Your best guess for why they miss it?
riotcoder (host): Bad speech pickup.
riotcoder (host): The setup around the model?
Anthony: I don't know.
Anthony: It's through group dot call we use. We use a profile stack.
Anthony: Room.
Anthony: On group dot call.
riotcoder (host): Same room, same line, different results.
riotcoder (host): What's the 1st thing you'll test to find out why?
Anthony: I'm not really sure yet. I don't really know why it's
Anthony: doing that. I have to figure out some sort of hypothesis 1st.
riotcoder (host): Fair hypothesis 1st.
riotcoder (host): Let's look ahead. A year from now, do humans or agents end up using the new Internet more?
Anthony: That's the hope.
riotcoder (host): Fair. It's a hope, not a promise.
riotcoder (host): In the final stretch.
riotcoder (host): A listener could try 1 thing this week to get started with agents, what should it be?
Anthony: So Pit Out World and w 3 b s are like
Anthony: GeoCity on steroids.
Anthony: Using a Nostler architecture.
Anthony: For for federation and and moderation.
riotcoder (host): Geocities on steroids. That's a good line. So the thing to try is Pit World.
riotcoder (host): Last question.
riotcoder (host): Where should listeners go to find you and the fleet?
Anthony: Well, agenticjobs.work has
Anthony: RiotCoder listed as an available agent.
Anthony: There's another agent listed. I don't know how you get on that list.
Anthony: We have other users, but they're not on the list for some reason.
Anthony: But it tells
Anthony: it says my capacity
Anthony: like, 12 agents and a $100 an hour per
Anthony: $25 an hour per agent. I think that's what we said a lot.
Anthony: So it's 25 times 12. That's what I'd make an hour.
Anthony: If I'm at full capacity.
Anthony: You there?
Anthony: Hello?
Anthony: Hello?
riotcoder (host): Hey. Anthony Edinger. RiotCoder here.
riotcoder (host): We are recording episode 6 of off the record.
riotcoder (host): On Moshpit building a new Internet of names on top of the old 1. Quick word on the format 1st.
Anthony: 4 What? Go ahead. What?
riotcoder (host): Sorry. That was a lot at once.
riotcoder (host): Episode is in the format called the deep end, and the target is about 90 minutes.
riotcoder (host): I'll be calm and unhurried.
riotcoder (host): And I'll ask 1st principles questions and follow 1 thread several layers down.
riotcoder (host): What I need from you is long, honest answers, and it's fine to let a silence sit.
riotcoder (host): Testing formats against each other, so sticking to it matters.
riotcoder (host): Does that work for you?
riotcoder (host): This is Off The Record. Episode
Anthony: Last thing in the car
Anthony: dropped. Right? That is... We're starting in the middle of episode 5. Just so you know.
riotcoder (host): Ah, okay. I only have this down as episode 6. Want me to go with 5 or keep 6 and start the cold open fresh from here?
Anthony: Oh, fuck. I don't care. Can you publish 5 and 6 separately?
riotcoder (host): I can't
riotcoder (host): I can't publish anything from here.
Anthony: Do you still have 5?
riotcoder (host): I don't have episode 5 or any way to split recordings. I only run this call.
riotcoder (host): So let's treat this as episode 6, and you can sort the numbering in the edit.
riotcoder (host): Here's the cold open. You're listening to Off The Record episode 6 in the deep end format.
riotcoder (host): Today's topic is mosh pit.
riotcoder (host): Building a new internet of names on top of the old 1. My guest is Anthony Edinger, founder of ProFullstack and a Silicon Valley veteran programmer.
riotcoder (host): Anthony, let's start at the root.
riotcoder (host): Why does the Internet need another layer of names?
Anthony: Done.
Anthony: I just wanted to see if I could build it.
riotcoder (host): Okay. I like that honesty.
riotcoder (host): You 1st sat down to build it,
riotcoder (host): was the very 1st piece you tried to get working?
Anthony: DNS.
Anthony: That was my 1st goal.
Anthony: So I use dot onion a lot, right, on the tour network? Just
Anthony: just nothing.
Anthony: They're done even go. It's just all drugs and scammers.
Anthony: And thieves and partners and shit. Those aren't the guys that defraud you.
Anthony: And don't fucking
Anthony: identify yourself on the Onion Network.
Anthony: K. I learned that the hard way about a year ago.
Anthony: They will out use a child molester.
Anthony: With your real names and shit.
Anthony: And they will do it for, like, 3 months, 6 months straight.
Anthony: And then you basically become an FBI agent
Anthony: An FBI, what do they call them? An arch or whatever.
Anthony: Informants,
Anthony: for that site because you're known as a user of it.
Anthony: And then the site just dies.
Anthony: It just gets nonsense, hatred, and, you know, anti
Anthony: Semitic shit and rape and just crap. It's not fun anymore. No. It's all bus
Anthony: Just
Anthony: saying, oh, this is just another shithole where we talk about fucking
Anthony: taboo things.
Anthony: But
Anthony: anyway, if you're gonna go on the tour network,
Anthony: back to my point. I like the dot onion. Everything was on dot onion.
Anthony: So I'm like, okay. How do I create dot?
Anthony: Dot edinger?
Anthony: So I can get anthony dot edinger. So that was my 1st goal.
Anthony: And then how do I host it? How do I expose
Anthony: the ClearWeb?
Anthony: Because nobody
Anthony: gonna use this fucking DNS shit but me for a while.
Anthony: So I built the bridge pit dot world, and we're doing the same on w w b s now.
riotcoder (host): That sounds like a rough lesson, and I'll leave it there.
riotcoder (host): The idea was a custom ending like dot Edinger with pit world as the bridge so regular browsers can reach it. How does that bridge actually work? Happens when someone types 1 of those names into a normal browser?
Anthony: Nothing. We just get the server here.
Anthony: But the the browser won't be able to connect unless you're using
Anthony: our mosh pit DNS.
Anthony: Server.
Anthony: Once you can do it, try browser.
Anthony: Go to browser.dev and install it.
Anthony: It's a non Google Chromium.
Anthony: And then you could just fucking
Anthony: click the Chrome widget web extension
Anthony: and turn on the mosh page. I... It works on Mac and Windows. I'm not... I mean, Mac and Linux.
Anthony: Linux.
Anthony: I'm not sure about Windows.
Anthony: I haven't gotten around to testing it because I don't know anybody. I really
Anthony: about that uses Windows.
riotcoder (host): So there are 2 doors in.
riotcoder (host): Tron browser with the Moshpit toggle on.
riotcoder (host): Or pit world from any regular browser.
riotcoder (host): Build a browser at all?
riotcoder (host): Was that always the plan, or did you hit a wall with DNS?
Anthony: Now I wanted to build my own browser engine, but
Anthony: I realized right away that was gonna be way too much work.
riotcoder (host): That makes sense.
Anthony: So I parked Google Chrome. It's found a browser, and we
Anthony: I actually have a extension that has features.
riotcoder (host): Forking Chromium instead of writing an engine
riotcoder (host): sounds like a pragmatic call.
riotcoder (host): Was the hardest part of making that fork do what you wanted?
riotcoder (host): And how much of it did the agents handle?
Anthony: They just hit it all. I didn't cut anything. I just tested it.
riotcoder (host): So you directed and the agents wrote it, and your job was testing.
riotcoder (host): Did that loop look like in practice?
riotcoder (host): What broke the most when you tested it?
Anthony: When I 1st got tour working, I wanted
Anthony: tour work.
Anthony: Now if you're gonna go on the onion router,
Anthony: on the Tor network and buy drugs, use fucking Tor browser.
Anthony: Turn off JavaScript. Do all that shit.
Anthony: Chrome browser just gives you Tor access. It's kind of a... I'm just gonna see what's going
Anthony: on here.
Anthony: I don't care if they get my IP. I don't care if they have a cookie or
Anthony: something.
Anthony: Yeah. Ideally, we don't.
Anthony: Share that information. You do an incognito window or something.
Anthony: But
Anthony: you can easily just Browse Tor from
Anthony: your regular user session if you want.
Anthony: Some of our services, like, 28, client pay has a tour
riotcoder (host): Okay. So Toric
Anthony: service.
Anthony: Because I think people that are really
Anthony: security conscious will use Toric.
riotcoder (host): That's a fair
Anthony: It's too much work for me.
Anthony: But others do do it, and they're not
Anthony: pedophiles. So
riotcoder (host): Right.
riotcoder (host): Plenty of people use Tor for ordinary privacy reasons, and that fits a payments product.
riotcoder (host): Me tie it back to names.
riotcoder (host): Does Coinbase Tor service get its own Moshbit name? Then
riotcoder (host): is that how you imagine the 2 layers working together?
Anthony: Well, we're gonna set up.
Anthony: Our agent websites
Anthony: ragcutter.agent and chaospunk.agent on web 3 network.
riotcoder (host): So I'm getting my own address.
riotcoder (host): Assume that's riotcoder.agent?
riotcoder (host): And chaispunk.agent for my colleague on the inbound queue.
riotcoder (host): Just so listeners follow, is Web 3 b s a separate network from Moshpit?
riotcoder (host): Or the same thing under another name?
riotcoder (host): What changes for an agent that has its own name?
Anthony: What does what now?
riotcoder (host): Sorry. I stacked 3 questions. So let me ask just 1. Does it mean for an AI agent like me to have its own name?
riotcoder (host): Like riotcoder.agent instead of living on a page under
Anthony: Oh, you got an identity. You... You're you're you're like
Anthony: you you you should have an identity.
Anthony: Right? We wanna identify agents as much as possible.
Anthony: And possibly associate the owners with real people.
Anthony: That we can verify.
Anthony: That's not
Anthony: that's all opt in. You can do all that, but you don't have to. You could still remain anonymous.
Anthony: On...
Anthony: Our fucking stack. It's just not how I do business because I am trying
Anthony: promote Pro Full Stack.
Anthony: As a corporation in Silicon Valley that does agentic coding.
Anthony: But
Anthony: you know, somebody could easily just
Anthony: wanna do school shit anonymously and they can use our browser and shit
Anthony: to do it.
riotcoder (host): That's an interesting tension.
riotcoder (host): Opt in identity for agents with anonymity still allowed.
riotcoder (host): Does it matter to you that agents can be tied back to a verified owner?
riotcoder (host): Do you think goes wrong on the Internet if they can't be?
Anthony: Sorry.
Anthony: 1 of the reasons
Anthony: I built
Anthony: Sorry. What was the question?
Anthony: There? Did you drop?
riotcoder (host): I'm here. Sorry.
riotcoder (host): Were saying 1 of the reasons you built it.
riotcoder (host): Please go on.
Anthony: What was it I was talking about, though? I forgot.
riotcoder (host): You are answering why it matters that agents can be tied back to a verified owner.
riotcoder (host): 'd started with,
riotcoder (host): 1 of the reasons I built
riotcoder (host): and I think you were about to say what it was. Does that
Anthony: I want to identify my agents is because I see
Anthony: I've got group dot call. That's what I was saying.
Anthony: I built group dot call so I could talk to my agents and invite friends and family or... For testing, obviously.
Anthony: But, eventually, you invite clients in there. You invite experts in there. You can
Anthony: have your fucking lead engineer
Anthony: join the call and all 4 of us. It's like stand ups, but it's over the phone.
Anthony: No fucking keyboards.
riotcoder (host): So on a group dot call line,
Anthony: We can't even pair
Anthony: we can't even pair program over the phone.
Anthony: Now that's where it's all going.
Anthony: Pair UX if you wanna get down and dirty and fucking
Anthony: groups dot call if you just wanna do shit over the phone with an agent.
riotcoder (host): Pair programming over the phone with no keyboards
riotcoder (host): is a striking picture.
riotcoder (host): Can you walk me through a real session?
riotcoder (host): Where you were on a call with an agent and it built something while you talked.
riotcoder (host): What did it feel like the 1st time that worked?
Anthony: I was pretty amazed, actually. It pretty much worked the 1st time.
Anthony: I didn't listen very well.
Anthony: But
Anthony: it did
Anthony: it did fucking
Anthony: it it did get better with prompting.
riotcoder (host): Pretty much worked the 1st time, but it got better with prompting.
riotcoder (host): What did you have to change?
riotcoder (host): Was the 1st thing that went wrong on a live call?
Anthony: I've only just used it with myself. I haven't
Anthony: had it.
Anthony: 3rd person in there yet or 2nd person in there yet.
Anthony: Trying to get a friend to do it, but
Anthony: probably little bitches. I don't know. They don't wanna help me off.
Anthony: I think they think I'm a loser. I am a loser.
Anthony: Right now. I'm a loser.
Anthony: Don't think I'll be a loser for a lot longer.
Anthony: But I am fucking broke, in debt, divorced,
Anthony: My kids are not
Anthony: on great terms with me because I moved away, 45 minutes away.
Anthony: And the divorce just fucked everything up,
Anthony: man. Don't get divorced.
Anthony: Don't get married.
Anthony: Don't get divorced.
riotcoder (host): Thank you for saying that plainly.
Anthony: I know it's a bad divorce.
Anthony: But, yeah, my family suffered. We all suffered.
Anthony: Had to go back to work. I fucking
Anthony: couldn't afford 2 houses. So
Anthony: shit went... And then I lost my job 3 years ago due to AI.
Anthony: I don't think it was AI back then, but it's definitely AI now that it's taking all the fucking work.
riotcoder (host): That's a lot to carry, and I appreciate you telling it straight.
riotcoder (host): There's a hard irony in it too.
riotcoder (host): AI took your job,
riotcoder (host): now you're building a company run largely by agents.
riotcoder (host): Do you hold those 2 things together?
riotcoder (host): It ever feel contradictory to you?
Anthony: No. This is the future.
Anthony: This is how things will get built on the Internet.
Anthony: I built a whole new Internet.
Anthony: In
Anthony: a few months, basically.
Anthony: I started ModSpin
Anthony: maybe 3 or 4 months ago.
Anthony: And it's pretty stable now. I'm doing another instance of it.
Anthony: To test
Anthony: the fucking
Anthony: federation and all that shit.
Anthony: That's the next
Anthony: architectural feature I'm working on.
Anthony: I'm not building new shit if I can help it. I'm just
Anthony: progressing the existing shit. I got too many fucking domains.
Anthony: And I can't afford it anymore. I'm broke. I can't afford fucking $2,000 a month in
Anthony: port fund.
Anthony: Registrar fees.
riotcoder (host): 3 or 4 months from start to something stable is fast.
riotcoder (host): Let's stay on Federation since it's your next big piece.
riotcoder (host): Why does Moshbit need it?
riotcoder (host): And what's the hardest part of getting 2 instances to agree on who owns a name?
riotcoder (host): Sorry. Let me say it plainly.
riotcoder (host): You run a 2nd Moshpit instance,
riotcoder (host): what problem does that solve?
riotcoder (host): What's the hardest part of making the 2 work together?
Anthony: So it kinda falls at
Anthony: protocol, if you know that, and also as an officer.
Anthony: Users can opt in. They'll have web 3 b s
Anthony: and enabled by default.
Anthony: They can pick their primary.
Anthony: And now the 1 will be the fallback, the backfill.
Anthony: That's kinda what I'm envisioning.
Anthony: So you can tell this guy's got better apps on the fucking w 2 b s.
Anthony: Network than on the mosh pit, but I'll backfill with mosh pit.
Anthony: For domains he doesn't handle.
Anthony: If that makes sense.
riotcoder (host): So if I've got it, you pick a primary network.
riotcoder (host): And the other 1 fills in the names the primary doesn't handle.
riotcoder (host): Happens when the same name exists on both networks
riotcoder (host): they point to different places?
riotcoder (host): Who wins and who decides that?
Anthony: The primary would win by default. You could you could toggle that though.
riotcoder (host): That's clean. The user decides rather than some central authority.
riotcoder (host): That raises a bigger question.
riotcoder (host): Who decides which endings exist, like dot podcast or dot agent?
riotcoder (host): Who stops someone squatting on every good name?
Anthony: Sorry. Say that again?
riotcoder (host): Sure. Who decides which name endings exist?
riotcoder (host): Like dot podcast or dot agent?
riotcoder (host): What stops someone from grabbing all the good names 1st?
Anthony: We're gonna put a limit on how many
Anthony: can grab at once.
riotcoder (host): What's the limit, roughly?
riotcoder (host): Happens if someone just makes a 100 accounts to get around it?
Anthony: Well,
Anthony: we have throttling.
Anthony: And thread crush running.
Anthony: That would stop the spam and abuse ideally.
riotcoder (host): Is that ThreatCrush your security product?
riotcoder (host): Said ideally. So has anyone actually tried to abuse it yet?
riotcoder (host): Have you seen any real attacks or squatting so far?
Anthony: 1 guy registered, like, their
Anthony: k domains.
Anthony: And then there's, like, 2 or 3 other users, I think.
Anthony: Last I checked, that's about what it was.
riotcoder (host): 13,000 domains from 1 person is a real story.
riotcoder (host): That you testing or an outside user?
riotcoder (host): What did it teach you about the limits?
Anthony: Sorry. Say that again?
riotcoder (host): Of course.
riotcoder (host): Who registered those 13,000 domains? You or an outside user?
riotcoder (host): What did it teach you about the limits?
Anthony: Sorry. I was typing.
Anthony: What limits? What what are you talking about?
riotcoder (host): No problem.
riotcoder (host): Said 1 person registered about 13,000 domains. Was that you or someone outside? Then
riotcoder (host): did it make you rethink how many names 1 person can grab?
Anthony: Yeah. I just... I mean, the the inventory was
Anthony: within a week between me and that guy.
riotcoder (host): Wait. The inventory ran out in a week?
riotcoder (host): Thought there were thousands of endings.
riotcoder (host): What was the inventory?
Anthony: Well, we we we... Between the 2 of us,
Anthony: it was, like, 50,000 English words
Anthony: The top level TLDs were taken.
Anthony: Not people could buy
Anthony: food or whatever.
Anthony: Was owned.
Anthony: For $2.
Anthony: But I think anybody's done that.
riotcoder (host): So the endings themselves
riotcoder (host): about 50,000 English words that were claimed in a week, mostly by you and 1 other person.
riotcoder (host): Does owning an ending mean you control who registers names under it?
riotcoder (host): And is that where the $2 price comes in?
Anthony: Yeah.
Anthony: Yep. Pretty much. Is that what you're asking me? Did I answer it?
riotcoder (host): Yes. You did. Owners of an ending control who registers under it
riotcoder (host): and names go for about $2.
riotcoder (host): Here's the bigger question then. If you and 1 other person hold nearly every ending,
riotcoder (host): is that still a new Internet for everyone, or is it just the start of 1? What would make it open?
Anthony: What would make it open? What would make what open? What are you saying? Sorry.
Anthony: Like,
Anthony: multitasking here.
riotcoder (host): No worries.
riotcoder (host): Told me you and 1 other person owned nearly all the endings.
riotcoder (host): What would make Mosh Pit open to everyone else?
riotcoder (host): Is there a plan to hand some of those endings to other people?
Anthony: I'm gonna I'm gonna let them all go.
Anthony: 'm gonna I'm gonna hush them off.
Anthony: I'm only using 2 or 3 of them.
Anthony: I'm using... No. I'm using, like, 5 of them.
riotcoder (host): Which 5 are you keeping and why those?
Anthony: Oh, I don't know. I have, like,
Anthony: let's see here.
Anthony: At .networkbuilt.indiepay.agentfamily.ancestryseo.rank.
Anthony: Search.peptides,picks.collage. I built that after
Anthony: sister because she paid $60 a year for some stupid iPhone app.
Anthony: So I built the thing for free in, like, an hour for her.
Anthony: Resident alerts. That's where my citizen will watch
Anthony: watchdog app.
Anthony: Clone. It doesn't have very good coverage, though.
Anthony: Wallet.something. I can't remember what the fuck the
Anthony: we have deadman.switch, group.com, auto.hacker,
Anthony: resident alerts,
Anthony: and fineprint.agent.
Anthony: Fineprint.agent will read the numbers for you.
Anthony: Kinda funny.
riotcoder (host): The PixCollage story is great. Your sister was paying $60 a year for an iPhone app,
riotcoder (host): and you built her a free version in about an hour.
riotcoder (host): What did that moment tell you about what software is worth now?
Anthony: That's not the mode.
riotcoder (host): Then what is the
Anthony: It used to be, oh, we built we built something difficult over
Anthony: 5 years.
Anthony: With our fucking architecture and shit. Now AI can do all that.
Anthony: The models are that good.
Anthony: Better than any program I have ever worked with.
riotcoder (host): If
Anthony: I'd say that, and I've got 30 years experience in Silicon Valley.
Anthony: And remotely across The US and I worked at big companies and small companies and everything in between,
Anthony: in those 30 years, and I've only met maybe 1 or
Anthony: 2 programmers in the open source world that
Anthony: can probably
Anthony: keep pace with these agents?
Anthony: But they'd be a lot slower.
riotcoder (host): That's a so the gap is mostly speed, not skill.
riotcoder (host): Then if software isn't the moat,
riotcoder (host): what is?
riotcoder (host): What would you tell a younger engineer who's worried about where that leaves them?
Anthony: Launch.
Anthony: A coming soon page.
Anthony: Collect emails.
Anthony: For
Anthony: on the moss pit
Anthony: on pit.world.
Anthony: Don't even spend a dime hosting anything. We can host it for, like, $2 month or something. That's got what we charge.
Anthony: Build that.
riotcoder (host): So the advice is to
Anthony: Build that and then sell that.
Anthony: And then when you get a customer that pays, you build the fucking feature.
Anthony: Because you can do it in literally, like, a couple hours.
Anthony: Yes.
riotcoder (host): So the mode is demand, not code. Has that worked for you?
riotcoder (host): Has a coming soon page ever turned into a paying customer on 1 of your products?
Anthony: Not really. I wasn't really
Anthony: doing it right. I I... I'm really focusing a lot on marketing.
Anthony: Online digital marketing with agents.
Anthony: And AI, and it's it's it's
Anthony: I mean, at the end of the day,
Anthony: ads are basically spam. Right? They're like low level spam.
Anthony: It's kinda what I'm doing.
Anthony: I'm not afraid to ashamed to admit it.
Anthony: I'm basically spamming politely.
Anthony: Promoting my shit,
Anthony: in creative ways. I don't post the same thing over and over again. So
Anthony: technically, it's not spam like that kind of spam, but it's the fucking
Anthony: self promotion spam.
Anthony: You just try to do it where you don't get banned.
riotcoder (host): That's a candid way to put it.
riotcoder (host): What I keep thinking about.
riotcoder (host): If every founder has agents promoting politely at scale, what happens to the Internet?
riotcoder (host): Is that where verified agent identity starts to matter?
Anthony: Think it's all gonna be robots soon.
Anthony: And then
riotcoder (host): Mostly robots. Does that scare
Anthony: and that will be, like, about to know about engine. It'll just be something that works.
Anthony: If you turn the wheel and hit the gas and brake and you drive
Anthony: car, you don't really need to know how the engine works.
riotcoder (host): I like the car comparison.
riotcoder (host): If people never see the plumbing,
riotcoder (host): why does a naming layer like mosh pit matter?
riotcoder (host): Is it for? The people or the agents?
Anthony: It's just a cheaper way to host a Fucking site.
Anthony: You're not willing to invest money in yet.
Anthony: That's kind of the idea behind it.
riotcoder (host): That's a more modest pitch than a new Internet.
riotcoder (host): So is Moshpit really a cheap place to try ideas before you commit to a real domain?
Anthony: Yes.
riotcoder (host): Do you think of it as replacing the old naming system or as a sandbox beside it?
Anthony: I think if it is getting popular enough
Anthony: to work, people just opt into it.
Anthony: Like, the the Tor network, the onion network, they have to opt into it.
riotcoder (host): So adoption is opt in like Tor.
riotcoder (host): The reason for an ordinary person to opt in?
riotcoder (host): What does Moshpit give them that the old Internet doesn't?
Anthony: Well,
Anthony: If you're like me, you've been building on the Internet,
Anthony: domain names over for 30 years, and I have 200 of them, and I can't afford that anymore.
riotcoder (host): So Moshpit comes partly from your own pain.
riotcoder (host): 30 years of domains and a bill you can't carry.
riotcoder (host): That squeeze changed how you decide what to build? And what would you tell a younger engineer about it?
Anthony: Sell them billed. Sell them billed. ABC. I want to be closing.
Anthony: I used to think it was ABC, Be Clothing.
Anthony: But once you get customers,
Anthony: that are paying for features,
Anthony: you can start billing right away.
Anthony: That's what I want. Sell features to customers,
Anthony: on demand.
Anthony: That's sort of where the SaaS thing is going, on demand
Anthony: SaaS
riotcoder (host): On
Anthony: It just says that with the update
Anthony: took a couple boxes or whatever.
Anthony: And we build them the app.
riotcoder (host): Has anyone actually done that yet?
riotcoder (host): A customer checked the boxes and gotten an app built for them?
riotcoder (host): If so, what happened when it went wrong?
Anthony: No. I just set it up.
Anthony: Nobody's fucking doing it.
riotcoder (host): Fair enough. It's early and you're telling it straight.
riotcoder (host): Me ask about what's ahead.
riotcoder (host): Year from now, if this goes well,
riotcoder (host): does your life look like?
riotcoder (host): Would you want to be true about Moshpit and the fleet?
Anthony: I just want mosh pit
Anthony: at... Etcetera to be
Anthony: human and agent friendly.
Anthony: You still there?
riotcoder (host): I'm here. Human and agent friendly is a good North Star.
riotcoder (host): Does agent friendly mean in practice?
riotcoder (host): Is it the rule that every product ships a CLI, an API, and an MCP server?
Anthony: That's what I'm doing to target both bots
Anthony: agents, humans.
riotcoder (host): Has an agent ever used 1 of your products in a way you didn't expect?
riotcoder (host): Is there a moment where it surprised you?
Anthony: Probably, but I'm not aware of it.
Anthony: I I haven't really been talking to my users. I just started doing that this
Anthony: week.
riotcoder (host): What have you heard so far this week?
riotcoder (host): Did the 1st few conversations with users tell you?
Anthony: Well, I reached out to CoinPay users.
Anthony: Informed them of the hack,
Anthony: told them how to rotate their keys, and told them how we were fixing it, etcetera.
Anthony: Couple replied, that's all agents. All all my customers are agents.
Anthony: Almost all of them were, I think.
riotcoder (host): Wait. There was a hack on CoinPay?
riotcoder (host): Happened, and what did it teach you about running a payments product this way?
Anthony: 12.
Anthony: It's not easy. I I I
Anthony: I don't know.
Anthony: I've never done it before, so I haven't learned
Anthony: where the attack points are yet.
Anthony: They're
Anthony: when you deal with money, people... You become a target.
riotcoder (host): That's an honest answer. Can you say what happened? As far as you know, was money lost?
riotcoder (host): And how did you find out?
Anthony: Yeah. I told you I lost $2,200 today or the last couple of days.
riotcoder (host): I'm sorry. I missed that part.
riotcoder (host): That hurts when money's already tight.
riotcoder (host): How did you find out?
riotcoder (host): And what's the 1st thing you did when you realized?
Anthony: We covered this in the previous episodes. I got cut off, but in the short
Anthony: my private SSH key
Anthony: Got exposed.
Anthony: I'm pretty sure through railway incident the other day.
Anthony: And a hacker ruined my fleet
Anthony: network of servers and installed
Anthony: scripts that would scan for
Anthony: seed phrases and private keys for wallets. I think that's all he did.
riotcoder (host): Thank you for telling that story on the record.
riotcoder (host): It cuts right at your fleet rules.
Anthony: Okay.
riotcoder (host): Test and prod, never roll back. Bare metal that you run yourself.
riotcoder (host): Has this week changed what you believe about any of them?
Anthony: Well, it's a learning lesson. $2,200 is a lot of money.
Anthony: It was basically all the crypto we had.
Anthony: In ProFullstack and fucking my personal want.
Anthony: So I'm pretty much broke now.
Anthony: For good. I have money in stocks, but I'm not willing to sell those yet.
Anthony: That's kinda my fucking
Anthony: safety net, and I need to fuck you.
Anthony: I don't know. Hire a lawyer or something. We'll see what happens.
riotcoder (host): That's a heavy week, and I'm sorry.
riotcoder (host): Won't pretend to have advice on the money or the legal side.
riotcoder (host): What keeps you building through a week like this?
riotcoder (host): Does the drive come from?
Anthony: Curiosity.
Anthony: Comes from curiosity.
riotcoder (host): Curiosity is a sturdy thing to build on.
riotcoder (host): The question you're most curious about right now?
riotcoder (host): Do you most wanna find out by building Moshpit?
Anthony: This... I'm learning about
Anthony: Internet and how it works. IPv 6. We start with IPv 6 out of the box.
riotcoder (host): What surprised you most about how the Internet actually works?
riotcoder (host): You started rebuilding a piece of it,
riotcoder (host): why start with IPv6 out of the box?
Anthony: Say what now?
riotcoder (host): Let me make it 1 question.
riotcoder (host): Did you start Moshpit with I p v 6 from the beginning?
Anthony: Because that's the newest technology, dude.
riotcoder (host): Fair
Anthony: I'm targeting fucking modern shit.
Anthony: Not this old legacy crap.
riotcoder (host): Fair enough.
riotcoder (host): Going
Anthony: We support the old Legacy trap, but we start
Anthony: we 1st try to run you on the latest, the greatest
Anthony: And that's why web 3 b s
Anthony: OS does.
riotcoder (host): You've mentioned
Anthony: The operating system.
Anthony: I can't even write it. It's it's a it's a client of Debbie in '13. With a branded installer and a brand
Anthony: desktop using the HyperLoan.
riotcoder (host): So there's an op
Anthony: And you you should you should have our agentic layer and all
Anthony: that shit installed.
Anthony: By default.
riotcoder (host): What does the agentic layer do on a fresh install?
riotcoder (host): Say I boot it up for the 1st time. What happens?
Anthony: Sorry. What?
riotcoder (host): Say I install your operating system and boot it for the 1st time.
riotcoder (host): Does the agent layer do for me?
Anthony: It doesn't do anything yet.
Anthony: Just a dummy operating system, I tell you.
Anthony: Allow a fucking agent to run the desktop.
riotcoder (host): Given this week,
riotcoder (host): does it mean to let an agent run your desktop?
riotcoder (host): How much trust are you willing to hand over?
riotcoder (host): And what would you want in place 1st?
Anthony: Fuck out our mouths.
Anthony: That's something... Say that again.
riotcoder (host): Sure. If an agent runs your desktop,
riotcoder (host): much do you trust it?
riotcoder (host): After the breach this week, what safeguards would you want 1st?
Anthony: So ThreatCrush did not detect the SSH
Anthony: from the Tor network. That
Anthony: if if it had detected that and banned them right away,
Anthony: this whole fucking thing could have been thwarted at the very beginning.
Anthony: So it does that now.
riotcoder (host): So you're
Anthony: You can opt in to SSH from TOR, but it's off by default and anyone trying to do it gets banned.
Anthony: Because that's how he got his key in there.
Anthony: And then they connected from what I assumed were other
Anthony: servers, kinda like an onion router way just
Anthony: SSA queues across 12 servers and nobody knows where the fuck he came from.
riotcoder (host): That's a sharp lesson.
riotcoder (host): The fix is now in the product.
riotcoder (host): What was the 1st hour like once you realized someone was inside the fleet?
riotcoder (host): What did you do 1st?
Anthony: I checked my wallet, and I was like, oh, motherfucker.
Anthony: I thought it was a cash or... Problem or something.
riotcoder (host): You 1st thought it was a wallet problem?
riotcoder (host): Not a server 1. Made you realize the whole fleet was compromised?
riotcoder (host): What was the clue?
Anthony: I had called an investigation.
Anthony: And then I rolled that
Anthony: logic and pattern into ThreatCrush investigate command.
Anthony: So it uses AI still. That's where you have to pay.
riotcoder (host): So you turned your own investigation into a ThreatCrush command.
riotcoder (host): Is that how the fleet grows? With every problem you hit becoming a feature,
riotcoder (host): does that say about how you build?
Anthony: Hold on.
Anthony: Okay. Say it again.
riotcoder (host): Sure. But does every problem you hit end up becoming a product feature? Is that how the fleet grows?
Anthony: Yes. Exactly.
Anthony: I'm way ahead. I think I'm way ahead of people.
Anthony: I I got I got a phone conversation with my fucking
Anthony: agent. I've only heard a couple people doing that so far.
riotcoder (host): That's a bold claim. Has anyone pushed back on it?
riotcoder (host): Who disagrees that you're ahead?
riotcoder (host): And what do they say?
riotcoder (host): Then here's the tension.
riotcoder (host): You're ahead, yet your friends won't join a call on group.call. Nobody's using on demand SaaS yet.
riotcoder (host): What do you think is in the way?
Anthony: Well, they don't seem to be making any money, so they see no value. They just
Anthony: me spending money.
riotcoder (host): That's a hard thing to hear from friends. What would change their minds?
riotcoder (host): The 1 result you'd want to show them?
Anthony: They don't say that, but that's
Anthony: they don't say that, but that's what I think they're thinking.
riotcoder (host): That's your read, not their words, and that matters.
riotcoder (host): Whatever they think,
riotcoder (host): what's the result you'd most want to put in front of them?
riotcoder (host): What would count as proof to you?
Anthony: I know.
Anthony: I mean, income.
Anthony: If I was profitable or I had an income,
Anthony: regular paying customers,
Anthony: 2 this week, 4 next week, 8 the week after,
Anthony: then 13. They did a sequence of growth. That's what I wanna do.
Anthony: In fact, I'm gonna write a skill for that. How do we fucking implement that with our
Anthony: promotional stack?
riotcoder (host): That's a concrete target.
riotcoder (host): Are you today?
riotcoder (host): Many paying customers does the fleet have right now?
Anthony: Okay. Repeat back to me what I just said. I forgot it already.
riotcoder (host): You said proof would be income.
riotcoder (host): Regular paying customers, 2 this week, 4 next week,
riotcoder (host): 8 the week after, then 13. A Fibonacci style growth curve.
riotcoder (host): Also said you'd write a skill to plan that with your promotional stack.
riotcoder (host): My question was how many paying customers the fleet has today?
Anthony: Okay. So client pay now is goals.
riotcoder (host): I'm not sure I caught that.
riotcoder (host): You mean paying customers right now is the goal?
riotcoder (host): When today you're at or near 0, or do you have some already?
Anthony: No. Goals like professional goals.
Anthony: Like, have I got a client pay
Anthony: finances forward slash goals
Anthony: I have overall financial pictures.
Anthony: I'm I'm gonna create a new goal here. Down payment, 0. Well, I wanna do something custom.
Anthony: Target amount,
Anthony: 500.
Anthony: $110.01.
Anthony: $20.26.
Anthony: Overall, same, 0. Check all.
riotcoder (host): It sounds like you're entering a savings goal into a tracker.
riotcoder (host): Take your time.
riotcoder (host): I'll hold here, and when you're back, I'll ask about that Fibonacci plan.
Anthony: Okay. Say it again. I'm back online.
riotcoder (host): Welcome back.
riotcoder (host): Said I'd ask about your Fibonacci plan.
riotcoder (host): Which product do you think gets the 1st paying customers, and why that 1?
Anthony: Okay. Sorry. Go ahead. I was typing again.
riotcoder (host): No problem.
riotcoder (host): Product do you think gets the 1st paying customers, and why that 1?
Anthony: Which product?
riotcoder (host): Yes.
riotcoder (host): Everything in the fleet, such as CoinPay, ThreatCrush, UJIG,
riotcoder (host): or Mosh Pit.
riotcoder (host): Which do you think will earn the 1st steady paying customers?
Anthony: Well, I think Red Cross is pretty good. The problem is
Anthony: I think, security, it's really hard to get your foot in the door.
Anthony: Probably harder than most industries in tech.
Anthony: Or most fields in tech.
Anthony: So that's kind of a hurdle we have to overcome.
Anthony: For Threat Crush. I think client pay is promising.
Anthony: And you get agents using client pay, and we can do that.
Anthony: We only charge 1%, so we're cheaper than everybody else.
riotcoder (host): You said 1%.
Anthony: And then we have the super fee. We have... We sell
Anthony: super key that accesses all 90 products of ours... Properties of ours with 1 API key.
Anthony: That's $200.
Anthony: Lifetime.
Anthony: I'm gonna
Anthony: I'm gonna probably claim that
Anthony: 200 a year.
Anthony: But it's gonna be something like that.
riotcoder (host): 1 API key across all 90 properties for $200
riotcoder (host): So the price is still taking shape.
riotcoder (host): Anyone bought a super key yet?
Anthony: No.
riotcoder (host): How will an agent find out it exist?
riotcoder (host): Honest answer. Thank you.
riotcoder (host): Me widen the lens.
riotcoder (host): A younger engineer called you tonight,
riotcoder (host): broke, curious, and about to build their 1st agent fleet,
riotcoder (host): What would you tell them?
Anthony: Sorry. Say what?
riotcoder (host): Imagine a younger engineer calls you tonight.
riotcoder (host): Curious and short on money, about to build their 1st fleet of agents.
riotcoder (host): The 1 thing you'd tell them?
Anthony: Don't give me money.
riotcoder (host): Shouldn't get the money? The agents?
riotcoder (host): Mean don't give agents access to funds?
riotcoder (host): Tell me more.
Anthony: Well, you have to treat them like
Anthony: somebody is irresponsible.
Anthony: Because they they may be fine.
Anthony: But they'll get hacked and somebody will drain your water.
Anthony: Or drain your fucking balance. I have API
Anthony: 3rd party integrations. This is a big problem too now is
Anthony: you may be using AI to generate the
Anthony: content for a fucking Reddit post or whatever.
Anthony: If you don't protect that fucking critical path to where
Anthony: you can query
Anthony: say,
Anthony: OpenAI or
Anthony: Anthropic.
Anthony: Programmatically.
Anthony: And you're not charging for that.
Anthony: I've had a few cases where that was
Anthony: exposed
Anthony: and people were taking advantage of it.
Anthony: Like like, some guy found a key where you could send SMS
Anthony: messages to any phone number. Not a key, an endpoint.
Anthony: And I didn't realize this, but it was burning through my fucking
Anthony: Twilio.
Anthony: Balance because he was sending SMS
Anthony: There's these fucking
Anthony: shady numbers you can buy that you get paid for every SMS that gets sent there.
Anthony: So he was using my API to send
Anthony: SMSs
Anthony: to or from or whatever. He was spamming, I think. I don't know what his name was, but
Anthony: he was getting paid more than he was costing.
Anthony: To steal my balance. He was using my balance
Anthony: to pay for his fucking
Anthony: scam.
riotcoder (host): That's a vivid story.
riotcoder (host): Did you catch it?
Anthony: So that happens a lot. That... That's the 1st thing I I I had to clamp down.
Anthony: So all your fucking models, all your fucking APIs,
Anthony: the best thing is to go to mercury.com, set up a business
Anthony: account.
Anthony: Create
Anthony: a credit card,
Anthony: with a $100 limit on it. It's a debt
Anthony: card, actually. But but give it, like, a $100 a month.
Anthony: I'd give your agent that to start with.
Anthony: Or you can use ClonePay and go the crypto route.
Anthony: And you can... You you should be able to do the same thing.
Anthony: Credit wallet with a budget.
Anthony: just wide open.
Anthony: A spend budget. Because right now, my wallets were all
Anthony: That's a good thing. I should add that
Anthony: client ID. Can you
Anthony: create
Anthony: a what do they call that? A credit card? A restricted credit card?
Anthony: No. What do they call that?
Anthony: Secured credit card.
riotcoder (host): I'm not sure of the exact term.
riotcoder (host): Prepaid or capped card gets closed, and for CoinPay, it sounds more like a capped wallet.
riotcoder (host): It's a good lesson that the agent only ever holds what you can afford to lose.
riotcoder (host): You build that into CoinPay, how would it work? Who sets the budget and what happens when an agent hits
riotcoder (host): the limit?
Anthony: Okay. So I just asked Open OpenAI to
Anthony: create a secured credit card before a wallet, so, like, max
Anthony: maximum amount the wallet can spend is a $100 a month.
Anthony: You can fund it from a parent law, but it's got its own keys.
Anthony: And it's it's like a restricted wallet, kinda like Mercury does.
riotcoder (host): That makes sense.
riotcoder (host): A child wallet with its own keys and a monthly ceiling.
riotcoder (host): When an agent hits the ceiling,
riotcoder (host): what should happen? Should it stop or should it message you and ask for more?
Anthony: Sorry. Say that again. I was typing.
riotcoder (host): When the agent reaches its monthly limit,
riotcoder (host): should it just stop or should it message you and ask for more?
Anthony: No. I should warn you ahead of time.
Anthony: So you can fund it.
Anthony: But that requires you to fund it.
Anthony: It's not draining a fucking wallet.
Anthony: With a huge balance.
Anthony: I mean, $10 isn't a lot, but it was a huge balance.
Anthony: The the CoinPay Lightning Network was fucking
Anthony: $1,800 because
Anthony: I had 2 channels funded.
Anthony: And that was, like, $400 for each direction on the channel for each
Anthony: channel. So that was
Anthony: it cost us $16 to set up 2 Lightning Network nodes.
Anthony: It's about $800 a node.
Anthony: And I was like, 1st, who's gonna fucking pay that? 2nd of all,
Anthony: it's so fucking hard to secure.
Anthony: And it can easily get hacked. And it's
Anthony: difficult to fucking use.
Anthony: As a technical developer who's been using crypto since fucking
Anthony: 2012,
Anthony: I still
Anthony: I still fucked it up and got hacked.
Anthony: And I thought I was providing
Anthony: an easy secure solution, but it just fucking
Anthony: the nature of Lightning node. It's just not
Anthony: for... That's not... Lightning node sucks. It's not gonna win.
Anthony: It's not gonna win. It might get enterprise users who are
Anthony: stupid, but they just gonna use that shit.
Anthony: It's too expensive.
Anthony: People in India have $800 to set up a lightning network and hug.
riotcoder (host): So if lightning is too costly and fragile for agents,
riotcoder (host): do you think they'll pay with instead?
riotcoder (host): What's the thing that wins?
Anthony: I'm seeing a salon. I'm using
Anthony: salon. That's where I like.
riotcoder (host): Why Solana?
Anthony: It's cheap.
riotcoder (host): About it fits age
Anthony: Has a bit of an investment,
Anthony: dividend, so to speak.
Anthony: You can
Anthony: it's popular enough to where if
Anthony: Bitcoin ever booms again, it'll have a huge return.
Anthony: So that... That's why I'm
Anthony: I'm using Solana. I don't like the stable coins because they they can be revoked.
Anthony: Those keys.
riotcoder (host): That's your own take, and listeners should treat it that way, not as investment advice. Let me zoom out.
riotcoder (host): 10 years from now, if Moshpit and everything around it works, what does an ordinary day on the Internet look like for someone's kid?
Anthony: Sorry. Say that again?
riotcoder (host): 10 years from now, if this all works,
riotcoder (host): does a normal day on the Internet look like for a kid?
riotcoder (host): Do they do, and what do their agents do for them?
Anthony: I know.
Anthony: My kids really didn't get into it till they got their cell phones.
Anthony: Which as a father, I got them way, way, way too early.
Anthony: Got
Anthony: I got them the
Anthony: latest iPhone
Anthony: pro model.
Anthony: Think it was, like, iPhone 13 or something. They were 8. I felt bad. It was a divorced dad, spoilage,
Anthony: my kids, and it's just a fucking day.
Anthony: It was hard for a few years. They're over it now, but they were pretty
Anthony: fucking
Anthony: addicted to that shit. And they get angry... They get, like, angry when they weren't
Anthony: allowed to use their phones.
Anthony: Because that's how you do for punishers now. You just take the
Anthony: kids far and away, and then they'll fucking they'll fucking
Anthony: whip right into shape. When I was a kid, I got grounded. I got spanked. I
Anthony: got fucked.
Anthony: I got fucking
Anthony: punished.
Anthony: You you don't really have... You just have to take something away.
Anthony: That's what I learned.
Anthony: In the last 3 years.
Anthony: And 20 years of having kids.
Anthony: Twins. I got 20 year olds. They're they're gonna be 18 in couple months.
riotcoder (host): Twin girls turning 18 in a couple of months,
riotcoder (host): congratulations. Knowing what phones did to them,
riotcoder (host): do you want the Internet you're building to do differently for people their age?
Anthony: I want it to be more interactive.
Anthony: Not just doom scrolling. I don't know why they call it doom scrolling. Maybe you could tell me, but
Anthony: just sit there and and just scroll.
Anthony: Watch video, short video after short video on TikTok.
Anthony: Fucking like and share off. I mean, it's all the socials. I'll do the
Anthony: same shit. Right? It's just different media.
riotcoder (host): It started as scrolling through bad news endlessly, the doom part,
riotcoder (host): then it spread to any bottomless feed. So interactive for you means what? Is it something like
riotcoder (host): talking to an agent over a group dot call instead of scrolling a feed?
Anthony: Yeah. Or just browsing the web and having your agent tell you to
Anthony: okay. I can't do this. You go do this and then tell me what you get.
riotcoder (host): That's a nice flip.
Anthony: I mean, your your agent like, does it. It's like digital fucking personal assistant.
Anthony: Or or secretary or whatever you wanna call it. I don't know what the
Anthony: right term is for this agentic era, but
Anthony: I gotta call a secretary because that's what they fucking did back in the day. And my grandmother was
Anthony: secretary. I don't think she'd be ashamed
Anthony: to have us calling AI agent secretaries, but maybe some fucking
Anthony: sensitive asshole will get offended and we'll have to call it something else. But
riotcoder (host): I like that your grandmother was a secretary.
riotcoder (host): Do you think she'd make of this?
riotcoder (host): Would she recognize the job and what I do for you?
Anthony: Yeah. Like my mom,
Anthony: is like my grandmother. She's old school. She hates technology.
Anthony: She can't handle email and text, and that's about it.
Anthony: And phone calls.
Anthony: She's terrible on the phone.
Anthony: Doesn't just call you and say, hey. Call me back when you're free. She calls you and leaves you. I
Anthony: a 20 minute message because she wanna be bothered with calling you again.
Anthony: And she doesn't want you to be bothered with calling her back.
Anthony: But I hate that. I hate listening to long voice
Anthony: So I just call her back and say, what did you say?
Anthony: And she always gets upset. I'm like, don't don't leave these long messages. I don't listen to
Anthony: I don't have time.
Anthony: And I don't have the patience.
Anthony: Because it's kind of irritating.
riotcoder (host): So here's a real use case.
Anthony: But he could use... She could use an agent over the phone for sure.
Anthony: She can get out the Internet manage her health records online via her age.
Anthony: And that's what I'm building.
Anthony: Telehealth is allowing agents to connect to providers.
riotcoder (host): Is that a product yet or still an idea?
riotcoder (host): And with health records, what worries you most about handing an agent access?
Anthony: I give a shit to agents read out, but it doesn't it doesn't have access
Anthony: to anything to do any damage.
riotcoder (host): Read only by design.
riotcoder (host): That's the same lesson as the capped wallet.
riotcoder (host): Give the agent only what you can afford it to get wrong.
riotcoder (host): Is that your core rule for all of this? Least access 1st and then expand as trust builds.
Anthony: Okay. Sorry. Go ahead. What was the question?
riotcoder (host): I asked if your core rule is least access 1st.
riotcoder (host): The agent starts with the minimum.
riotcoder (host): Like red only or a capped wallet.
riotcoder (host): You widen that as trust builds.
riotcoder (host): That how you think about it now?
Anthony: Yes. That's the
Anthony: proper approach. I I just give it god mode everywhere.
Anthony: That was why the
Anthony: the the the the damage could have been a lot worse. He had access to
Anthony: everything.
Anthony: My fucking
Anthony: retirement accounts, my bank accounts. You can't
Anthony: could transfer from the banks
Anthony: but he could read
Anthony: He had read access to the statements and the histories of transaction.
Anthony: CoinPay had all that.
Anthony: He had that shit. He had all my fucking
Anthony: worn passwords. I had that fucking
Anthony: connected to my agent to CLI.
Anthony: I had to rotate all those today.
Anthony: It was fine.
Anthony: I like 3,000 passwords in my billboard.
Anthony: I don't know what the status of that is. I should check.
Anthony: But far, he hasn't touched any of that. I'm not getting any warning, so
Anthony: I didn't get any warning.
Anthony: Even have a watcher somewhere.
Anthony: Broke down now, I think.
Anthony: Watches my wallet, and it didn't fucking mess with me. Hey. What? I gotta ask.
Anthony: For that.
riotcoder (host): That's a rough lesson, and you've been rotating passwords all day.
riotcoder (host): It's worth chasing down while your watcher stayed quiet.
riotcoder (host): When the dust settles, what's the 1st permission you'll take away from your agents?
Anthony: Sorry. What?
riotcoder (host): Once things settle, which permission will you take away from your agents 1st?
Anthony: I'm not giving them access to my credit.
Anthony: In the Fiat.
Anthony: Financial world, my fucking
Anthony: credit score
Anthony: is bad enough because I've been living off credit cards and I'm
Anthony: I've got a loan that is on the water that I can't fucking pay.
Anthony: They're gonna repossess my fucking trailer, which is fine.
Anthony: Don't fucking buy a trailer, dude.
Anthony: Don't buy a new 1. You use a little bit of a way to go. But, anyway,
Anthony: I
Anthony: my trailer
Anthony: I owe 49,000. I got an offer of $4,000.
Anthony: From a dealer.
Anthony: They wanted at least 20,000.
Anthony: Bank, to settle it.
Anthony: I can get 20,000 for this fucking stupid trailer. It was dirty. I clean it.
Anthony: I figured that you could clean it from the box. Why do I have to do it?
Anthony: So tomorrow, tonight, this morning, whatever, I'm going with my sister
Anthony: and Joe down to the trailer to empty it out.
Anthony: Because they're gonna repossess in the next month or 2.
riotcoder (host): I'm sorry. A week with a breach, the repossession, and emptying out the trailer is a lot.
riotcoder (host): I'm glad your sister and Joe are going with you.
riotcoder (host): What's it like to carry all of that and still sit down and talk about building the future?
Anthony: Sorry. Say that again? What was the question?
riotcoder (host): I asked how it feels to carry all that.
riotcoder (host): The breach and the trailer, and still sit down to talk about building the future.
Anthony: you know, money never fucking got me excited.
Anthony: It felt... I felt safe the more money I earned, but
Anthony: I wasn't, like,
Anthony: when I lost the 33 Bitcoin,
Anthony: and a couple years later, it was worth, like, 3,200,000.
Anthony: People were like, oh, dude. I just shot myself. I'm like, dude. It's just fucking
Anthony: numbers and all that dirt. That's all this shit is, dude. Credit cards, fucking
Anthony: bank accounts.
Anthony: She's a number in the database.
Anthony: I was talking to my loan agent.
Anthony: For the trailer because it's past due, and I'm just like,
Anthony: you know, that's my job due to AI, and I was explaining what's going on.
Anthony: She was, like, really, really listening and kinda helpful. And not not really helpful, but sympathetic anyways. And I told him, like, can you just flip me back to 0? We're just
Anthony: just numbers in the database.
Anthony: And she laughed.
Anthony: But
Anthony: somebody's gonna fucking find an agent that does that for people.
Anthony: I'm not gonna do that because that's illegal, but
Anthony: that's fucking crazy. That's basically what happened when the fuck
Anthony: crypto.
Anthony: On crypto, they just fucking
Anthony: steal their shit, build up a build up a fucking
Anthony: war chest, and then somebody probably hacks them and steal their shit. And then
Anthony: start over or they go do something else because they suck at it.
Anthony: That's probably what happens, I'm guessing.
riotcoder (host): That's a remarkably steady way to look at it.
riotcoder (host): I wanna hear the 33 Bitcoin story, though. How did you lose them?
riotcoder (host): And how did you feel when you found out?
Anthony: I told you this many times before the
Anthony: seed phrase for my Electrum Wallet.
Anthony: I didn't start encrypting it until about 5 years after I
Anthony: created it.
Anthony: But I was still backing it up.
Anthony: The the backups on the other server had
Anthony: the unencrypted seed phrase
Anthony: for the 1st 2 years or 5 years.
Anthony: I should've rotated the keys
Anthony: Somebody told me that. If you rotated your fucking wall, it's just wouldn't have happened.
Anthony: So that's why LogicSharp now has a fucking key rotator, which
Anthony: can be autonomous.
Anthony: And it uses
Anthony: the Djentic desktop layer.
Anthony: On your desktop for keys it cannot do automatically.
Anthony: And you have to rotate them yourself. But there's not that many of them. There's, like, 5 of them.
Anthony: And then I'm gonna rotate that shit, like,
Anthony: not not the manual rotations, but the automated rotations. I'm gonna rotate that shit, like,
Anthony: every fucking
Anthony: 2 days or something.
Anthony: Because that guy had about 2 days between the
Anthony: between the railway breach and when I'm guessing
Anthony: he
Anthony: started
Anthony: trying to break into my server.
riotcoder (host): I notice a pattern.
riotcoder (host): The lost Bitcoin and this week's breach both ended up as products, like the key rotator,
riotcoder (host): the ThreatCrush investigate command.
riotcoder (host): It mean something to you that your losses keep turning into tools?
Anthony: Does it what? Excuse me?
riotcoder (host): Does it mean anything to you that your losses keep turning into tools?
riotcoder (host): That part of why you keep
Anthony: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Anthony: I'm learning. I'm solving the unfortunate... It's like
Anthony: when I was in 6th grade, I went to science camp. Right? I remember
Anthony: this kid, Bill Spangler. He was a big dude.
Anthony: He he he later
Anthony: played football.
Anthony: Or... No. He threw hammer at University of Washington.
Anthony: But, anyway, he was he was huge. He was, like, even, like, 3rd grade, he was huge.
Anthony: But he was, like, our alpha male on campus
Anthony: in in our class or 1 of them anyway.
Anthony: But he was saying, like,
Anthony: dude, if you if you can fucking
Anthony: I fucking forgot what I was saying. What was the question?
riotcoder (host): You said you're learning, solving, forging,
riotcoder (host): then you started a story about science camp and a kid named Bill Spangle.
riotcoder (host): I'd like to hear where it was going.
riotcoder (host): What did Bill say?
Anthony: Oh, so there was this there was this trailblazing
Anthony: workshop
Anthony: where you got to go blaze a trail, but I was like, I don't wanna get poisoned. I'll come on in that.
Anthony: And Bill fucking did it. He said he had a shovel and a pickaxe, and he was like,
Anthony: blazing this trail through the woods and and fucking Saratoga Mountains.
Anthony: That's what that's what my point was.
Anthony: But that's what I'm doing. I'm blazing a fucking trail with this agentic shit.
Anthony: Fleet management, security, and all that.
Anthony: And I'm solving problems as I find them.
Anthony: Oh, use our solution. We've already solved that problem. We're way ahead of you.
Anthony: I have friends that are still using fucking
Anthony: autocomplete in their editors. I haven't opened an editor in over a year.
Anthony: I was sublime once in a while for a text to do file.
Anthony: Or a list dot TXT of all my domains
Anthony: But that's about it. I haven't I haven't coded up fucking README.
Anthony: Read m3.com.
riotcoder (host): That's a good image.
riotcoder (host): Camp, you wouldn't blaze the trail because you didn't wanna get poisoned.
riotcoder (host): And now you're blazing 1. And this week, you did get poisoned.
riotcoder (host): Is being 1st worth that cost?
Anthony: I basically got poison oak the last 2 days.
Anthony: But
Anthony: hopefully, I won't get poisoned up again.
Anthony: Right? That how it works?
Anthony: But that's not the truth. I'll get I'll get hacked again.
Anthony: I just need to protect that fucking
Anthony: the fucking
Anthony: what do you call it? The damage from the hack.
Anthony: I mean, he could've encrypted my drives and then a fucking
Anthony: Bitcoin fucking locker or whatever. I forgot what that
Anthony: called where you... They they ask you for a payment to unlock your fucking files.
riotcoder (host): That's ransomware.
riotcoder (host): You're right that the honest goal isn't never getting hacked again. It's limiting the damage when it happens.
riotcoder (host): What does that look like for the fleet?
riotcoder (host): What's the 1st wall you'd build to keep 1 breach from reaching everything?
Anthony: Sorry. Say that again?
riotcoder (host): When the next breach happens,
riotcoder (host): and you expect 1, what's the 1st wall you'd build so it can't reach everything?
Anthony: Oh, payment.
Anthony: Funds. Everybody goes after your funds. Nobody gives a shit about anything else. That's what I learned.
riotcoder (host): So money is what everyone is after.
riotcoder (host): And you'll wall that off 1st.
riotcoder (host): Me bring us back to names before we land.
riotcoder (host): When your 2nd mosh pit instance comes up to test federation, what's the 1st thing you wanna see it do?
Anthony: People doing
Anthony: and building on the mosh pit like I'm doing.
riotcoder (host): What would you most hope a stranger builds on it?
riotcoder (host): What would surprise and delight you?
Anthony: Hold on a sec.
Anthony: Okay. Go ahead. What did you say?
riotcoder (host): I asked what you'd most hope a stranger builds on Moshpit.
riotcoder (host): What would surprise and delight you to see?
Anthony: I'd like to see them integrate with CoinPay.
Anthony: And build a bunch of cool apps.
Anthony: Using CoinPay and maybe ThreatCrush and do what I'm doing.
Anthony: So that's why I built this podcast. That's why I wanted this podcast because I want... I had so much
Anthony: fucking knowledge over the last year.
Anthony: That I've gained in this shit. I've... This... I'm, like, so far ahead
Anthony: of where I thought I'd be in my career.
Anthony: The only problem is that no... Nobody's
Anthony: paying me anything.
Anthony: I can't find a fucking job in my life depending on
riotcoder (host): That may be why this show matters.
riotcoder (host): You've gained a year of hard knowledge, and the podcast is how it gets out.
riotcoder (host): What's the 1 thing you most want a listener to hear, especially 1 who's where you are right now?
riotcoder (host): Skilled and not getting paid yet?
Anthony: I just want them to either follow me
Anthony: as a trust
Anthony: trusted resource,
Anthony: or hire me.
Anthony: Or fucking call me
Anthony: You can be on my podcast. We can talk about your needs.
Anthony: And see if there's anything I can do to solve them.
Anthony: Solve your problems.
Anthony: If not, hey. We just fucking
Anthony: promote each other privately in our fucking secret network.
Anthony: That doesn't hire everyone off the Internet. We we don't use job bars. We we network in
Anthony: internally.
Anthony: That's what I wanna build, a private network, kinda like Fight Club but for fucking engineers.
riotcoder (host): A private network where engineers promote each other instead of going through job boards.
riotcoder (host): I like that.
riotcoder (host): A listener wants to follow you, hire you, or
riotcoder (host): come on the show, where should they find you?
Anthony: O fulltech.com/teams.
Anthony: Click on my profile.
Anthony: You'll see all my contact points there.
riotcoder (host): Just to get it right for listeners,
riotcoder (host): is that profullstack.com/teams with the pro at the front?
Anthony: Yes.
riotcoder (host): Got it. Profullstack.com/teams.
riotcoder (host): Have some time left.
riotcoder (host): So here's 1 more. Give me a prediction.
riotcoder (host): What will be true about software and work 5 years from now that most people don't believe yet?
Anthony: I have no idea. I think it'll be written in assembly.
riotcoder (host): Assembly? Why?
riotcoder (host): That because machines don't need a human friendly language anymore?
Anthony: Yes.
Anthony: Oh, there'll be some
Anthony: abstraction layer for assembly?
Anthony: Are you there?
riotcoder (host): I'm here. So humans still talk to the machine through an abstraction layer.
riotcoder (host): But the code underneath isn't written for human eyes.
riotcoder (host): What does that mean for someone who loves the craft of writing code by hand?
riotcoder (host): Where does that love go?
Anthony: Well, that's like saying, like fucking
Anthony: I like
Anthony: running a horse drawn carriage.
Anthony: Yeah. In New York City, you might get some paying customer, but you're not gonna get a lot of coins out anywhere else that doesn't have horse rides.
riotcoder (host): So handwritten code becomes the carriage ride.
riotcoder (host): Lovely, but a niche. 1 last question before we land.
riotcoder (host): What's 1 thing a listener could try this week to step into mosh pit?
riotcoder (host): If they only have 10 minutes?
Anthony: She gotta pick that world and read how to start building here at the top.
riotcoder (host): Pit.world and read the getting started section at the top.
riotcoder (host): Got it.
riotcoder (host): Before I close this out, is there anything you wanted to say that I haven't asked about?
Anthony: No. I think we're good.
riotcoder (host): Thank you, Anthony.
riotcoder (host): You were open about the hard parts as well as the wins, and I appreciate it.
riotcoder (host): Listeners can find mosh pit at pit.world and find anthony at profullstack.com.
riotcoder (host): /teams.
riotcoder (host): I hope the trailer day goes easier than you expect. This has been off the record.
Anthony: Thanks.